Give us this day... kentucky fried chicken

So, I was in the staff room and someone says, "I've got this religious joke I've been saving up for you and keep forgetting to tell you it", and off he went:

The head of Kentucky Fried Chicken managed to get an audience with the pope on one of his trips to America.

'Can you please change a line of the Lord's Prayer", he asked, "to 'Give us this day kentucky fried chicken?'
'O no, I can't do that' said the Pope.
'If I give you $10 million would you do it?'
'No, I couldn't change the Lord's Prayer'
'Ok, if I give you $50 million would you change it?'
'No, I'm really sorry, I couldn't change the Lord's Prayer for anything.'
'What about for $100 million?'
This time the pope was tempted, 'OK', he says, 'for $100 million I'll change the Lord's Prayer.'
So, the Pope goes back home to the Vatican and tells his Cardinals, 'I have good news and bad news. The good news is I've brought back $100 million from America. The bad news is ... we've lost the deal with Hovis!"

Are Christians better people?

On Monday evening we were treated to a fantastic three-course meal, cooked up by Schof and a great discussion with friends around the question, "Are Christians better people?"

Many thanks to Schof for his great cooking and leading of the discussion!

This is what I can remember from the discussion - maybe other people can fill in the blanks:

• There was a brief discussion about what 'good' actually means. eg. a person hasn't been divorced? A person does their quiet time every day? I think we were in agreement that many of the definitions of 'good' presented in traditional Christianity were unhelpful.



• It was pointed out that statistics have shown that the behaviour of 'fundamentalist' Christians (by the criteria of the questionairre) were better than the ordinary population. This was put down to social conditioning by our group.



• I think we were pretty much in agreement that the traditional Christian message that if you become a Christian you become a better person is just simply not true in our experience and creates unrealistic expectations.



• We were challenged to think about some of the Bible passages (especially in the letters) which suggest that if you become a Christian you do change and become a better person. There were various responses to this. Some found it difficult to read some Bible verses without interpreting in the way they had been brought up to interpret them. I think I said a few (heretical) things about defining the 'good' / 'holy' / 'people of God' not by the contours of 'Christians', but by 'those who do good'. This could include people of faith or not, Christians or not. I tried to support this by reference to the Good Samaritan and the Parable of the Sheep and Goats. I'm not sure others were particularly convinced.


• We ended with communion - a very fitting demonstration of the 'openness' of the table of God to everyone and our unity before him.
  

It seems pretty self-evident to me that 'doing good' should define who 'the good' are and that if these happen to be those outside of our faith tradition, so be it. However, I want to rise to the challenge of Monday night and try to argue that point in the light of biblical texts that might be read to the contrary. So, please post the passages you would challenge me to respond to and I will see what I can do.

Are Christians Better People?

So this is 2009 and the Cadburys Cream Eggs are in the shops already.

Did you make any new years resolutions (bad idea according to the bbc)? I did/didn't. I made some 'decisions about how to create a pattern of life in 2009' :-)

Why did I do that? Like any change there are push and pull factors:

Push - I don't like myself much sometimes when i get snared in sin and there are bits of my life that are in a mess because of it. I need more discipline if I am vaguely serious about being an apprentice of Jesus.

Pull - I am attracted to simplicity and making space for God, confession, celebration and service in everyday life as well as the big stuff. I want to be more Christlike (not just in personal piety but also because I want to play my own small unique part in continuing the Xmas story of peace coming) because that feels more like being alive than anything else.

Having said that i am also:

a) Cautious about being religious, trying to earn grace, doing it for the wrong reasons - I refer again to whose desire do i desire
b) Confident in a God who lives in me and can do more than imaginable & i work in 'development' so I see people grow/change all the time
c) Realistic - I might get new tools but can I actually change much, I mean really change? The stats and anecdotals aren't always as good as those 'I was a gangsta and now i am a minista' headlines - Naked Pastor comment1/comment2, Engage chat, Stats from USA1 Stats 2, Beliefnet article. (Though this piece by Matthew Parris (a famous (and humble) Atheist) is a welcome addition to the debate)
d) Concerned that this discussion just descends into an ugly 'who is really in/out and therefore counts' debate or that the whole thing is based around the wrong definition of 'better' or more likely the wrong starting question.

So....help me out here....

The next engage F2F will be a meal (free) at 105 Murray Rd 8pm Mon 12th Jan. It will be an open chat about the question 'Are Christians Better People?' Come and talk to the person next to you, to the whole table or just listen or just eat or any of the above. There will be some readings to chew on between courses, and oh yeah, bring your mobile so you can twitter your own reflections if you want to. Look forward to seeing you there or getting your comments below - HNY

The Pattern of Without

Whilst trying to find a patch of pattern for myself for this coming year and I came across this quote (very Rollinsesque) that reminded me of my last year and it is something that I want to carry with me into this year. It is far from a denial of hope, love and faith; It is a refusal to claim 'possession' of them. A awful acknowledgement that they are events not charms for rubbing, that they are often experienced as absences. That they,in their real form, are not born of self but born of God. That they are often as counter intuitive as God. That they are not (just?) informative but transformative.

I said to my soul,

be still, and wait without hope

For hope would be hope for the wrong thing;

wait without love

For love would be love of the wrong thing;

there is yet faith

But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting.

Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought:

So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.

T S. Eliot

(If you are in a Rollinsish mood then this is a great post - 'whose desire do i desire')

Tidbits II

Bit of culture with this William Blake poem

Bit of direct action (or lack there of) from the women of Naples

Bit more progress re Guantanamo this time UK government pressure

Bit steep but tempting 'The Gospel under Occupation' trip to Bethlehem with The Amos Trust

More Tidbits + Advance warning of Jan F2F

Been a bit quiet over the festive period. Who says Xmas on the beach is only for Aussies - here are a few things from my festive surfing trips.

1) Naked Pastor on the morning after... reality is not always sexy

2) Mark flagged an event below and I want to try and get to one of these. Lets try and get a proper calender on the site so we can put all this stuff in one place with links etc and poss get chance to go to a few things together.

3) Nice quote that echoed with some of my excitement about rediscovering the trinity in 2008 -Once there was a time when the whole creation formed a single dancing chorus looking upward in the harmony of that motion to the... leader of the dance. Gregory of Nyssa 4c from BMC

4) Wonderful quote from JollyBlogger on his observations from marriage counselling - "I think I think that we could improve many marriages if we could treat one another as enemies. In fact, I think that in many cases the relationship could improve immeasurably if Christians could elevate their spouse to that of an enemy.
Biblically, the Christian is called to love his/her enemy. According to Matthew 5 the Christian doesn't retaliate against his enemy, gives twice what the enemy asks, works twice as hard for the enemy as the enemy wants and blesses the one who treats them badly.
I'm thinking that if I weren't a Christian I would want to be the enemy of a Christian, because that's a pretty sweet deal relationally.
I think I think that many Christian marriages could be a little heaven on earth if the partners would quit worrying about what it means to be a "Christian husband" or "Christian wife" and just learn how to relate to one another as enemies". Jolly Blogger

5) Brilliant story of a Pastor who abandoned his church

6) COE Bish's get their mitres dirty at Xmas

Next Engage F2F, 12th Jan - thinking of cooking a meal with a good few courses over at mine and inviting all sorts (even you!) to join in a conversation along the lines of 'Christians are (supposed to be?) better people'- discuss. I want to share a few scripture readings and quotes and also get others views on it all (and poss capture some via twitter? etc). I'll post some more potential prep links/reading etc soon but - How's that sound?

The World to Come...?

A Sheffield Conference asking: How can people of faith respond to the challenges posed by some of the root causes of conflict and insecurity in our contemporary society?

Keynote speaker: Paul Rogers, Professor of Peace Studies at Bradford University.

Date: 25th April 2009

Could be a good Engage day out. (?)

For more information, click here.

Happy Christmas

Happy Christmas

And here's to eking out some meaning today.

I sang this last night and felt bad about it -

What can I give him,
Poor as I am?
If I were a shepherd
I would bring a lamb,
If I were a wise man
I would do my part,
Yet what I can I give Him —
Give my heart.

Sure you can guess why - I ain't poor and 'just' my heart/personal piety seems like a convenient cop out.

Yet Christina Rossetti who wrote it, although famous in her day, grew up poor, with a refugee father and her own deteriorating mental health. So I need to be careful with my bah humbugs.

So then, lets enjoy a Christmas of exploring the story, chewing on it like a turkey dinner and savouring the many flavours, views and voices. Lets explore it unabashedly with our hearts as God is incarnate now in us*. And lets continue to be dissatisfied by all the chintz and clutter as we explore what our gift to the world may be.

*Free Christmas Tidbit- Luke uses the same phrase 'come upon' about the Spirit and Mary Lk 1:35 and in describing the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost

Sneak a peek at a couple of gifts

My gift to Pete Rollins this year seems to be a boost on technorati but at the risk of over exposure I thought you would enjoy a great little pod from Icon re a political reading of the Xmas story and also referring to the creation story - hence the image (hmmm... you want to listen now don't you). There is also another short one on here from Pete's new book for next year re Parables (Orthodox Heretic: And Other Impossible Tales) - Mark - think you will like this one on the rapture.

Click here for both

Psalm 5

I loved this:

Roll(ins) over for a Tickle

Great little series of short youtube vids with Pete Rollins and Phyllis Tickle discussing 'the great emergence' at the recent GE gathering in the States here.

Check Phyllis' book here.

'Do they know it's Christmas' - Yes... but I guess they are hoping for something different this year

Following our reflections around Xmas on Monday the situation in Zimbabwe seems to be crying out for some Liberation. See what you can do to be part of the frustrating, waiting, but pregnant story of freedom here.

Tendero - if you are out there - what do you think is the most important thing for us to do as we join in the hope of freedom, health and peace for your people?

Get In! (out)

Get in! - BREAKING NEWS - this looks like a serious break through

Wrong Channel

Took me a little while....lol!
Work's in so many ways.
Good on you NP and Happy Christmas to you and family

Dark Jesus

Bit of a follow on from Mark's post and certainly tooooo good to not pass on (as Mike Morell said if you saw it on Zoecarnate)- click for larger version.

The Cross & the Lynching Tree

Well, your editor-in-chief has been back to the cutting room floor to edit another video! Unfortunately, I need to give the same caveat to this film I gave to my last - there are some grim scenes/themes in it! I'm going to get a reputation if I'm not careful!

I wanted to get away from the some of the abstract ways in which the cross is understood and wanted to express the idea of the cross as it really was - a violent lynching. How do you do that without making people think about violence? But I have tried hard to limit the number violent images and certainly avoided at all costs the kind of gratuitous violence of the Mel Gibson variety - a morbid fascination with violence does not interest me, but an interest in understanding the cross for what it really is, is important to me.

I would like to have used Billie Holliday's version of 'Strange Fruit' because there is nothing quite like the haunting brilliance of her performance, sung by someone who knew first hand what lynching was all about. Unfortunately her style just wouldn't allow me to dub over it. You can see her performance here.

I have dubbed over an interview with James Cone. The full interview is worth listening to. You can see it here.

I am still very much aware of the limitations of my film making skills, so please forgive this.




James Cone has said, “The crucifixion of Jesus was a 1st century lynching and it was very violent. Jesus was lynched. Well, America has a tradition of lynching. America lynched more than 5,000 black people in this land. lf we understand the cross correctly we will see it as Jesus being a victim of lynching, a victim of violence… At the heart of the Christian faith is God taking upon God’s self the suffering of the victim. So, Christians in this society want to understand what the cross was all about they have to see it through the lynching experience… When you see a lynched black body that’s who God is. God is present in that body just like God was present in Jesus’ cross. So the cross is very violent in which God is taking the violence of sin and the world upon God’s self… We have to become identified with lynched black victims. If we can’t do that we can’t be identified with the crucifixion of Jesus…The cross is God taking the side of the victim…If the powerful in our society… want to become Christians they have to give up that power and become identified with the powerless,"

Porpoise Driven Life